Yesterday, Apple introduced three new Power Mac G5s still based on the current PowerPC architecture. The new G5s are offered in one 2.0GHz configuration, one 2.3GHz and one 2.5GHz configuration, all of which are based on dual-core 90nm PowerPC 970MP CPUs. You can get Apple's pricing and more here but I just wanted to chime in with some of my thoughts on what's being offered:
Dual Core
All of Apple's new Power Mac G5s feature dual-core processors, but what it allows Apple to do is outfit the lower end Power Mac G5s with only a single processor and still offer the same number of concurrently executable threads as the older dual processor G5s. Granted you do lose some performance because the two cores now must share a single FSB, whereas the older dual processor machines had an independent FSB per processor. But any performance loss you'd see there is more than made up by the fact that each core now gets a full 1MB L2 cache.
The previous G5 cores were stuck with a relatively small (by today's standards) 512KB cache. It made the 90nm G5 die very small, but it also meant that performance wasn't as good as it could have been. One thing Johan found in his investigations with the G5 was that memory latency was pretty bad, and a small L2 cache does nothing to hide that.
For the two lower end G5s, the fact that the single CPUs are now dual core doesn't mean much, but the move to a 1MB L2 cache per core should result in a tangible performance increase in a lot of scenarios.
Apple does give up a bit of clock speed at the high end by moving to dual core, with the fastest G5 now topping out at 2.5GHz vs. 2.7GHz. The larger L2 cache will make up for some of that difference, but not all. Obviously the high end G5 now offers more than just a faster clock speed, it now features two dual-core CPUs. But, just like we've seen in the PC world, those applications that exhibit a high level of TLP will appreciate the dual dual-core CPU configuration, while others may actually run faster on the older dual 2.7GHz setup. For the most part, most OS X applications seem to be highly threaded in nature, and my money is on a dual dual-core configuration being the more desirable one.
DDR2-533
With the new G5s Apple has moved to DDR2-533, offering a total of 8.5GB/s of memory bandwidth. Unlike Intel's DDR2 platforms however, the G5s can actually use the added memory bandwidth. The G5 interfaces to the North Bridge via a bi-directional 64-bit FSB running at 1/2 the CPU clock speed. That means for a single 2.5GHz dual-core G5, there is about 10GB/s of bandwidth from the CPU to the North Bridge. For a dual dual-core 2.5GHz G5, that's 20GB/s of bandwidth as each CPU gets its own dedicated FSB. So in this case, there may actually be a tangible performance improvement from going to DDR2-533.
It is irritating that Apple didn't move to DDR2-667 yet, especially on their highest end configuration (and especially because it can use the bandwidth), but given Apple's relatively conservative nature whenever it comes to memory speeds it isn't a huge surprise.
PCI Express, at last
The move to dual-core is interesting, but given that the previous line of G5s were all dual processor to begin with, it's not a huge improvement. In my opinion, the biggest improvement to the new G5s is the move to PCI Express. And here's one thing I really do like about Apple, when they move to a new technology, they really move to it.
There isn't a single parallel PCI slot in the new G5s, instead you've got one x16 slot, two x4 slots and one x8 slot. The other interesting thing is that all of the PCI Express slots use a x16 connector, so although there is only one x16 slot (electrically), all four slots can fit a x16 card. Apple uses this support to their marketing advantage, by mentioning that the new G5s can support up to 8 displays through 4 dual-display PCIe graphics cards.
One thing that truly surprised me was the lack of two x16 (electrical) slots, meaning that these G5s aren't exactly configured for SLI. Given that NVIDIA is the GPU vendor of choice for Apple this time around, with the only PCIe GPU offerings coming from NVIDIA, you would think that Apple would put together a SLI-capable product with this line of G5s. There are a handful of reasons why this didn't happen and none of them really require too much thought. Apple seems to be very sensitive about preserving the usability of PCI (and now PCIe) slots, so occupying the area of virtually all four slots thanks to two large graphics cards probably wasn't at the top of their to-do list either.
Apple's new G5s get their choice of four different PCIe cards: a GeForce 6600 LE, 6600, 7800 GT and Quadro FX 4500. All of the cards support at least one dual-link DVI port, with the Quadro FX 4500 supporting two.
In the End
Apple has honestly done their best to make an attractive non-Intel Power Mac offering and obviously they had to. The dependency of OS X on high speed CPU/graphics communication means that the move to PCI Express graphics was a must, and I am pleased with the way in which Apple made that move. Offering four physical x16 slots, even if they aren't electrically x16, makes a lot of sense, and there shouldn't be any reason for PC motherboard makers to offer something similar. It may be a bit confusing, but the added flexibility is a definite benefit.
The move to dual core and DDR2 are both nice, but they will mean a lot more when we see the move to x86 next year. It is also interesting that none of Apple's performance comparisons are against x86 processors anymore :)
Dual Core
All of Apple's new Power Mac G5s feature dual-core processors, but what it allows Apple to do is outfit the lower end Power Mac G5s with only a single processor and still offer the same number of concurrently executable threads as the older dual processor G5s. Granted you do lose some performance because the two cores now must share a single FSB, whereas the older dual processor machines had an independent FSB per processor. But any performance loss you'd see there is more than made up by the fact that each core now gets a full 1MB L2 cache.
The previous G5 cores were stuck with a relatively small (by today's standards) 512KB cache. It made the 90nm G5 die very small, but it also meant that performance wasn't as good as it could have been. One thing Johan found in his investigations with the G5 was that memory latency was pretty bad, and a small L2 cache does nothing to hide that.
For the two lower end G5s, the fact that the single CPUs are now dual core doesn't mean much, but the move to a 1MB L2 cache per core should result in a tangible performance increase in a lot of scenarios.
Apple does give up a bit of clock speed at the high end by moving to dual core, with the fastest G5 now topping out at 2.5GHz vs. 2.7GHz. The larger L2 cache will make up for some of that difference, but not all. Obviously the high end G5 now offers more than just a faster clock speed, it now features two dual-core CPUs. But, just like we've seen in the PC world, those applications that exhibit a high level of TLP will appreciate the dual dual-core CPU configuration, while others may actually run faster on the older dual 2.7GHz setup. For the most part, most OS X applications seem to be highly threaded in nature, and my money is on a dual dual-core configuration being the more desirable one.
DDR2-533
With the new G5s Apple has moved to DDR2-533, offering a total of 8.5GB/s of memory bandwidth. Unlike Intel's DDR2 platforms however, the G5s can actually use the added memory bandwidth. The G5 interfaces to the North Bridge via a bi-directional 64-bit FSB running at 1/2 the CPU clock speed. That means for a single 2.5GHz dual-core G5, there is about 10GB/s of bandwidth from the CPU to the North Bridge. For a dual dual-core 2.5GHz G5, that's 20GB/s of bandwidth as each CPU gets its own dedicated FSB. So in this case, there may actually be a tangible performance improvement from going to DDR2-533.
It is irritating that Apple didn't move to DDR2-667 yet, especially on their highest end configuration (and especially because it can use the bandwidth), but given Apple's relatively conservative nature whenever it comes to memory speeds it isn't a huge surprise.
PCI Express, at last
The move to dual-core is interesting, but given that the previous line of G5s were all dual processor to begin with, it's not a huge improvement. In my opinion, the biggest improvement to the new G5s is the move to PCI Express. And here's one thing I really do like about Apple, when they move to a new technology, they really move to it.
There isn't a single parallel PCI slot in the new G5s, instead you've got one x16 slot, two x4 slots and one x8 slot. The other interesting thing is that all of the PCI Express slots use a x16 connector, so although there is only one x16 slot (electrically), all four slots can fit a x16 card. Apple uses this support to their marketing advantage, by mentioning that the new G5s can support up to 8 displays through 4 dual-display PCIe graphics cards.
One thing that truly surprised me was the lack of two x16 (electrical) slots, meaning that these G5s aren't exactly configured for SLI. Given that NVIDIA is the GPU vendor of choice for Apple this time around, with the only PCIe GPU offerings coming from NVIDIA, you would think that Apple would put together a SLI-capable product with this line of G5s. There are a handful of reasons why this didn't happen and none of them really require too much thought. Apple seems to be very sensitive about preserving the usability of PCI (and now PCIe) slots, so occupying the area of virtually all four slots thanks to two large graphics cards probably wasn't at the top of their to-do list either.
Apple's new G5s get their choice of four different PCIe cards: a GeForce 6600 LE, 6600, 7800 GT and Quadro FX 4500. All of the cards support at least one dual-link DVI port, with the Quadro FX 4500 supporting two.
In the End
Apple has honestly done their best to make an attractive non-Intel Power Mac offering and obviously they had to. The dependency of OS X on high speed CPU/graphics communication means that the move to PCI Express graphics was a must, and I am pleased with the way in which Apple made that move. Offering four physical x16 slots, even if they aren't electrically x16, makes a lot of sense, and there shouldn't be any reason for PC motherboard makers to offer something similar. It may be a bit confusing, but the added flexibility is a definite benefit.
The move to dual core and DDR2 are both nice, but they will mean a lot more when we see the move to x86 next year. It is also interesting that none of Apple's performance comparisons are against x86 processors anymore :)
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mlittl3 - Thursday, October 20, 2005 - link
Almost all of Intel's CPUs by the middle of next year will be dual core. I don't see why apple won't put two of those puppies in their high end systems. You can make a dual dual-core Intel system now but you will be hotter than the sun and slower than a 486.mlittl3 - Thursday, October 20, 2005 - link
Correction. You can build dual dual-core intel systems once motherboard support is available (about 2-3 weeks) for the Paxville 2.8 GHz Xeon.Viditor - Thursday, October 20, 2005 - link
BTW, are we going to be seeing a Paxville review on AT at all? The GamePC review was absolutely damning, but I have frankly not trusted their reviews all that much.Anand Lal Shimpi - Thursday, October 20, 2005 - link
Or using Sossaman: dual dual-core YonahsTake care,
Anand
mlittl3 - Thursday, October 20, 2005 - link
I really think the new Powermacs are superb machines. Apple did a good job with their supposedly last PowerPC update. It goes without saying that the new Powerbooks are a let down. I wish they could have used the new Freescale cpu that uses pci-express and 200 MHz bus. Oh well. I heard they had problems with it so they had to keep delaying to cancelling it.I can't wait to see what Apple does with tried and true x86 hardware. Since Dell is being religated to "also ran" status with no significant products and Apple is being considered an innovator with the ability to surprise, I think those Mac platforms based on Merom, Woodcrest and Conroe with be kick ass. :)
icarus4586 - Thursday, October 20, 2005 - link
Aren't most current SLI implementations based on two 8x slots anyway? I'd think that Apple's PCI-E configuration would be fine...
Anand Lal Shimpi - Thursday, October 20, 2005 - link
The main requirement from NVIDIA's standpoint is that you have two equal bandwidth/latency links, which today is either two x8 or two x16 slots. The majority of SLI configurations are attained by splitting a single x16 electrical connection into two x8 connections.The closest thing Apple has at this point (unless the x16 slot is dynamically reconfigurable) are the two x4 slots on the motherboard.
Take care,
Anand
mlittl3 - Thursday, October 20, 2005 - link
"The new G5s are offered in one 2.3GHz configuration and two 2.5GHz configurations, all of which are based on dual-core 90nm PowerPC 970MP CPUs."I think the offerings include one dual-core 2GHz, one dual-core 2.3GHz and dual dual-core 2.5GHz plus an additional offering to buy the old dual single-core 2.7GHz PCI-X model. Just thought I would point that out.
Anand Lal Shimpi - Thursday, October 20, 2005 - link
Woops :) Thanks for pointing that out, it's what happens at 4AM :)Take care,
Anand
ksherman - Thursday, October 20, 2005 - link
Yeah, they compare it to the old G5's... probably will do that when they officaly release the x86 processors next year, and MAGICALLY the x86 will be faster! *gasp*