Bravo Intel, I would not think id see myself saying this because I always wanted AMD to be on top, but after seeing every year how Intel keeps up its Tick Tock release schedules, im simply amazed. Amd needs to keep following them closely as much as they can, coz to surpass them I dont think its gonna happen anytime soon.
AMD originally planned to enhance the Bulldozer architecture annually for an increase of ~5-10%, but after starting so far behind Intel in performance, they eventually nixed that plan and have put all resources into their new products.
Most of their CPU engineers are now concentrating entirely on the new ARM and X86_64 cores designed specifically for servers, with some concentrating on low power APUs for the low end PC and tablet market. They aren't even putting any efforts into competing with Intel on the mainstream or high end desktop level anymore. They're going for the low end of both PC and server markets now.
Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised to see AMD completely out of the CPU market in less than ten years.
Intel should be worried about being out of the cpu market in 10 years too. Will anyone be using anything other than arm both in devices and in servers by then?
People were saying the same thing about AMD 15 years ago when the K6 and K6-2 were failing to compete with Intel in any meaningful way. I'm hoping they've been spending all their development money on a decent competitor and that's why they haven't released anything for 2 years (except rehashes chips with better GPUs).
Unfortunately even Intel has scaling problems. Broadwell pretty much totally missed this year and they had to a do rebadging of Haswell on the desktop. Shame to see them take that page from AMD/ATI's book.
Wow. I'm impressed. Skylake up and running. That's a tick and a tock ahead of Haswell. So I guess that means the Intel engineers are tinkering with the 10nm Cannonlake process as I type this...
I wonder what kind of IPC improvement we can expect this time around. Ivy Bridge, Haswell, and most likely Broadwell have all averaged ~5% bump relative to their predecessor. Could we expect a 20-25% improvement this time around a la Sandybridge or is that unrealistic?
If intel's past holds true, we will probably, since this is a major architecture change, see maybe a 10% cpu increase. My guess is that intel's gpu could see a 40% boost over what broadwell will offer, if sandy>ivy was anything to go by. Which, for laptop, would be quite impressive, since broadwell is already shaping up to be significantly faster than haswell was.
IPC improvement only if it means power savings. Intel seems determined to win the mobile crown for all devices, and has the resources and minds to do it.
On average Ivy was about 6% faster than Sandy, Haswell 8% than Ivy and Broadwell is supposed to provide about another 6% IPC boost. Don't expect more than 10% from Skylake, as the current architecture is already extremely good.
Also, I wonder if Intel will be pushing IGP performance more heavily this time around. The past few generations have seen decent improvements generation to generation, but I don't get the impression that graphics performance has been Intel's top priority. Might we see a more substantive IGP architecture tweak this time around than what we'll be seeing with Broadwell?
I'm waiting to see the PCIE lane armageddon that semiaccurate has been predicting. If they cut the legs out from gamers / dGPU users who don't want to pay the big premium for the Pro platform then it might just be an opportunity for the red team, if they get their act together
Is that based off those 2 year old rumors that Broad well was gonna be BGA only as well? A quick look at the Broadwell wiki shows both LGA 1150 and BGA SKUs
It will probably not happen in desktops, but I wouldn't be surprised if it gets scaled back in laptops again. We lost the 16x3.0 lanes with Haswell ULV, what's to say they won't chop it off for the lower end i3s and i5s, forcing dGPU laptops to be paired with expensive i7s?
The loss of dGPUs on Haswell ULV was a kicker for thin laptops with dedicated GPUs, as something like a 840m won't suffer from being paired with a ULV chip, yet the combination would have a much lower TDP.
I don't recall seeing anything about full power mobile CPUs; but the rumors I've seen for desktop Skylake have been an increase to 20 lanes on the CPU (16GPU, + 4 SSD). I suppose it's possible that they might drop the full power mobile version down to 12 (8 + 4); but am somewhat skeptical because the OEMs who do SLI laptops and RAID0 SSDs would howl.
Haswell ULV could pair the 840 on 4 PCIe lanes from the CPU if the OEM wanted to, or even doe something silly like 2x840's in SLI with 4 lanes each (Intel's specsheet implies that you can't group 8 lanes into a single connection). A GPU of that class wouldn't bottleneck on the narrower bus; so I can only assume that the SNB ULV gaming laptops didn't sell well enough to justify continued investment.
I HIGHLY doubt that the PCI-E lane cut happens on desktop / std mobile parts. I mean, there are rumors of 20 pcie lanes on desktop skylake (instead of the current 16). Time will tell...
Will the IPC be really that impressive? Aren't they wrong about Skylake coming out one year after Broadwell? Their suppose to come out together, right?
Any time frame for Skylake-E? because that would be my next upgrade from my Ivy Bridge-E 4930k
There are hints for a faster ramp up. We might see Skylake-E(P) late 2015(mid Oct to Dec). Many big customers are not happy with the Server road-map the last few years. If it goes smoothly, that 2015 lunch is very likely. There is a rumor for late spring/early summer lunch of Broadwell-EP and add the fact, 18 core was planned for Broadwell-EP, but now debut on Haswell-EP. Plus Knights Landing on the new LGA 3XXX for Skylake-EP for 2H2015.
I've also seen rumors that to make the big customers happy by reducing the delay on high end Xeon launches that Intel might skip the broadwell generation for them entirely. If that also means that Skylake-E launches at or shortly after mainstream Skylake for the enthusiast version there would be much rejoicing.
Originally, Broadwell should bphave been out in the first quarter of 2014. But 22nm was late too, as was 32nm before that. So these things continue to get pushed back. Intel can fudge with their chart because just getting a handful of chips out counts, for them, as have the line out. If they put when full production began, then the chart would look different.
So yes, they should be out a full year later, but are coming out right on the heels of Broadwell.
Intel is falling further behind each new processor shrink, though their chart doesn't show that. Originally, Broadwell should have had a complete rollout during 2014, with the usual trickle afterwards. But it's really just a trickle in 2014, with the majority available in 2015. As stated in the article, Broadwell will have a pretty short lifetime.
But what's the bet that 10nm won't also be late? I'm betting that it will.
The most ineresting thing with Skylake will be skylake-e Before it´s only boring laptops and handheld stuff, skylake-e will have pci-e 4 and other fun stuff have been waiting for skylake-e since sandy-bridge come out, doing well by my 2687w x2 so far
Indeed, Skylake-E will be awesome: PCIE 4.0, SATA Express, DDR4. Yuuummy. It will be my next upgrade. It contains a lot of juicy stuff but hopefully they don't delay/cancel some of them. Again.
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33 Comments
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AnotherGuy - Tuesday, September 9, 2014 - link
Bravo Intel, I would not think id see myself saying this because I always wanted AMD to be on top, but after seeing every year how Intel keeps up its Tick Tock release schedules, im simply amazed. Amd needs to keep following them closely as much as they can, coz to surpass them I dont think its gonna happen anytime soon.dgingeri - Thursday, September 11, 2014 - link
AMD originally planned to enhance the Bulldozer architecture annually for an increase of ~5-10%, but after starting so far behind Intel in performance, they eventually nixed that plan and have put all resources into their new products.Most of their CPU engineers are now concentrating entirely on the new ARM and X86_64 cores designed specifically for servers, with some concentrating on low power APUs for the low end PC and tablet market. They aren't even putting any efforts into competing with Intel on the mainstream or high end desktop level anymore. They're going for the low end of both PC and server markets now.
Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised to see AMD completely out of the CPU market in less than ten years.
surt - Thursday, September 11, 2014 - link
Intel should be worried about being out of the cpu market in 10 years too. Will anyone be using anything other than arm both in devices and in servers by then?AnnonymousCoward - Friday, September 12, 2014 - link
Yeah, me.Frenetic Pony - Saturday, September 13, 2014 - link
Lol, course they'll still be around. CPU ISA is a boring non story. Much more interesting is what material the CPUs will be built on.Flunk - Friday, September 12, 2014 - link
People were saying the same thing about AMD 15 years ago when the K6 and K6-2 were failing to compete with Intel in any meaningful way. I'm hoping they've been spending all their development money on a decent competitor and that's why they haven't released anything for 2 years (except rehashes chips with better GPUs).Byte - Friday, October 17, 2014 - link
Unfortunately even Intel has scaling problems. Broadwell pretty much totally missed this year and they had to a do rebadging of Haswell on the desktop. Shame to see them take that page from AMD/ATI's book.Hulk - Tuesday, September 9, 2014 - link
Wow. I'm impressed. Skylake up and running. That's a tick and a tock ahead of Haswell. So I guess that means the Intel engineers are tinkering with the 10nm Cannonlake process as I type this...Stochastic - Tuesday, September 9, 2014 - link
I wonder what kind of IPC improvement we can expect this time around. Ivy Bridge, Haswell, and most likely Broadwell have all averaged ~5% bump relative to their predecessor. Could we expect a 20-25% improvement this time around a la Sandybridge or is that unrealistic?TheinsanegamerN - Tuesday, September 9, 2014 - link
If intel's past holds true, we will probably, since this is a major architecture change, see maybe a 10% cpu increase. My guess is that intel's gpu could see a 40% boost over what broadwell will offer, if sandy>ivy was anything to go by. Which, for laptop, would be quite impressive, since broadwell is already shaping up to be significantly faster than haswell was.MikeMurphy - Wednesday, September 10, 2014 - link
IPC improvement only if it means power savings. Intel seems determined to win the mobile crown for all devices, and has the resources and minds to do it.MrSpadge - Wednesday, September 10, 2014 - link
On average Ivy was about 6% faster than Sandy, Haswell 8% than Ivy and Broadwell is supposed to provide about another 6% IPC boost. Don't expect more than 10% from Skylake, as the current architecture is already extremely good.Stochastic - Tuesday, September 9, 2014 - link
Also, I wonder if Intel will be pushing IGP performance more heavily this time around. The past few generations have seen decent improvements generation to generation, but I don't get the impression that graphics performance has been Intel's top priority. Might we see a more substantive IGP architecture tweak this time around than what we'll be seeing with Broadwell?ImKant - Sunday, September 14, 2014 - link
You can't be serious. Their IGPs are growing by leaps and bounds.wintermute000 - Tuesday, September 9, 2014 - link
I'm waiting to see the PCIE lane armageddon that semiaccurate has been predicting. If they cut the legs out from gamers / dGPU users who don't want to pay the big premium for the Pro platform then it might just be an opportunity for the red team, if they get their act togetherBecause0789 - Wednesday, September 10, 2014 - link
Is that based off those 2 year old rumors that Broad well was gonna be BGA only as well? A quick look at the Broadwell wiki shows both LGA 1150 and BGA SKUsrhx123 - Wednesday, September 10, 2014 - link
It will probably not happen in desktops, but I wouldn't be surprised if it gets scaled back in laptops again.We lost the 16x3.0 lanes with Haswell ULV, what's to say they won't chop it off for the lower end i3s and i5s, forcing dGPU laptops to be paired with expensive i7s?
The loss of dGPUs on Haswell ULV was a kicker for thin laptops with dedicated GPUs, as something like a 840m won't suffer from being paired with a ULV chip, yet the combination would have a much lower TDP.
DanNeely - Wednesday, September 10, 2014 - link
I don't recall seeing anything about full power mobile CPUs; but the rumors I've seen for desktop Skylake have been an increase to 20 lanes on the CPU (16GPU, + 4 SSD). I suppose it's possible that they might drop the full power mobile version down to 12 (8 + 4); but am somewhat skeptical because the OEMs who do SLI laptops and RAID0 SSDs would howl.Haswell ULV could pair the 840 on 4 PCIe lanes from the CPU if the OEM wanted to, or even doe something silly like 2x840's in SLI with 4 lanes each (Intel's specsheet implies that you can't group 8 lanes into a single connection). A GPU of that class wouldn't bottleneck on the narrower bus; so I can only assume that the SNB ULV gaming laptops didn't sell well enough to justify continued investment.
extide - Saturday, September 13, 2014 - link
I HIGHLY doubt that the PCI-E lane cut happens on desktop / std mobile parts. I mean, there are rumors of 20 pcie lanes on desktop skylake (instead of the current 16). Time will tell...kenoh - Wednesday, September 10, 2014 - link
Will the IPC be really that impressive? Aren't they wrong about Skylake coming out one year after Broadwell? Their suppose to come out together, right?Any time frame for Skylake-E? because that would be my next upgrade from my Ivy Bridge-E 4930k
kyuu - Wednesday, September 10, 2014 - link
I would expect Skylake-E probably mid- to late-2016, if past experience is any indication. Haswell-E only just came out, if you noticed.iceman-sven - Wednesday, September 10, 2014 - link
There are hints for a faster ramp up. We might see Skylake-E(P) late 2015(mid Oct to Dec). Many big customers are not happy with the Server road-map the last few years. If it goes smoothly, that 2015 lunch is very likely.There is a rumor for late spring/early summer lunch of Broadwell-EP and add the fact, 18 core was planned for Broadwell-EP, but now debut on Haswell-EP. Plus Knights Landing on the new LGA 3XXX for Skylake-EP for 2H2015.
MrSpadge - Wednesday, September 10, 2014 - link
I also like chips for lunch.. but only if they're already launched ;)DanNeely - Wednesday, September 10, 2014 - link
I've also seen rumors that to make the big customers happy by reducing the delay on high end Xeon launches that Intel might skip the broadwell generation for them entirely. If that also means that Skylake-E launches at or shortly after mainstream Skylake for the enthusiast version there would be much rejoicing.melgross - Thursday, September 11, 2014 - link
Originally, Broadwell should bphave been out in the first quarter of 2014. But 22nm was late too, as was 32nm before that. So these things continue to get pushed back. Intel can fudge with their chart because just getting a handful of chips out counts, for them, as have the line out. If they put when full production began, then the chart would look different.So yes, they should be out a full year later, but are coming out right on the heels of Broadwell.
MrSpadge - Wednesday, September 10, 2014 - link
"bring-up of their 14nm process"That should be "ramp-up of their.."
thomasxstewart - Wednesday, September 10, 2014 - link
public needs bee estatic..drashek
melgross - Thursday, September 11, 2014 - link
Intel is falling further behind each new processor shrink, though their chart doesn't show that. Originally, Broadwell should have had a complete rollout during 2014, with the usual trickle afterwards. But it's really just a trickle in 2014, with the majority available in 2015. As stated in the article, Broadwell will have a pretty short lifetime.But what's the bet that 10nm won't also be late? I'm betting that it will.
krutou - Saturday, September 13, 2014 - link
Guess what, other foundries like TSMC are having problems as these smaller nodes too.arneberg - Thursday, September 11, 2014 - link
The most ineresting thing with Skylake will be skylake-eBefore it´s only boring laptops and handheld stuff, skylake-e will have pci-e 4 and other fun stuff have been waiting for skylake-e since sandy-bridge come out, doing well by my 2687w x2 so far
wye43 - Friday, September 12, 2014 - link
Indeed, Skylake-E will be awesome: PCIE 4.0, SATA Express, DDR4. Yuuummy. It will be my next upgrade.It contains a lot of juicy stuff but hopefully they don't delay/cancel some of them. Again.
wireframed - Sunday, September 14, 2014 - link
All of that except PCIe 4.0 is already in Haswell-E. Do we desperately need more PCIe bandwidth?otherwise - Tuesday, January 13, 2015 - link
We're going to need that PCIe bandwidth very soon as SATA Express and NVMe PCI cards become more and more common.