Scythe Ninja Plus Rev. B: Updated Cooling Legend
by Wesley Fink on April 11, 2007 2:00 AM EST- Posted in
- Cases/Cooling/PSUs
CPU Cooling Test Configuration
The standard test bed for cooling tests uses an EVGA NVIDIA 680i SLI motherboard. This is primarily based on the consistent test results on this board and the excellent NVIDIA Monitor temperature measurement utility, which is part of the nTune program. The 680i chipset is also one of the better options for Socket 775 CPU overclocking, and it provides great flexibility in our standard cooler tests which overclock to the failure limit with each cooler tested.
NVIDIA Monitor has a drop-down pane for temperature measurement which reports CPU, System, and GPU results. Reviews at this point will concentrate primarily on CPU temperature. In addition to the real-time temperature measurement, NVIDIA Monitor also has a logging feature which can record temperature to a file in standard increments (we selected every 4 seconds). This allows recording of temperatures during testing and play back, for example, of stress test results that can then be examined when the stress tests are completed. There is also the handy reference of speeds and voltages in the top pane to confirm the test setup.
Other components in the cooling test bed are generally the same as those used in our motherboard and memory test bed:
All cooling tests are run with the components mounted in a standard mid-tower case. The idle and stress temperature tests are run with the case closed and standing as it would in most home setups. We do not use auxiliary fans in the test cooling case, except for the north bridge fan attached to the 680i for overclocking.
Since Scythe provides a small packet of a standard white thermal compound, we tested with a premium silver colored (no silver content) thermal compound we have used in testing coolers that did not include a proprietary thermal compound in the cooler kit.
In our experience the thermal compound used makes little to no difference in cooling test results. This is particularly true now that processors ship with a large manufacturer-installed heatspreader. Our only control on thermal compound is that we use the manufacturer-supplied product if they supply a premium product, or a standard high-quality thermal paste if a premium brand is not supplied.
We first tested the stock Intel cooler at standard X6800 speed, measuring the CPU temperature at idle and while the CPU was being stressed. We stressed the CPU by running continuous loops of the Far Cry River demo. The same tests were repeated at the highest stable overclock we could achieve with the stock cooler. Stable in this case meant the ability to handle our Far Cry looping for at least 30 minutes.
The same tests were then run on the cooler under test at stock, highest stock cooler OC speed (3.73GHz), and the highest OC that could be achieved in the same setup with the cooler being tested. This allows measurement of the cooling efficiency of the test unit compared to stock and the improvement in overclocking capabilities, if any, from using the test cooler.
Noise Levels
In addition to cooling efficiency and overclocking abilities, users shopping for CPU cooling solutions may also be interested in the noise levels of the cooling devices they are considering. Noise levels are measured with the case open on its side and are measured using a C.E.M. DT-8850 Sound Level meter. This meter allows accurate sound level measurements from 35bdB to 130dB with a resolution of 0.1dB and an accuracy of 1.5dB. This is sufficient for our needs in these tests, as measurement starts at the level of a relatively quiet room. Our own test room, with all computers and fans turned off, has a room noise level of 36.4dB.
Our procedures for measuring cooling system noise are described on page seven along with noise results comparing the stock Intel cooler and recently tested CPU coolers to the Scythe Ninja Plus B.
The standard test bed for cooling tests uses an EVGA NVIDIA 680i SLI motherboard. This is primarily based on the consistent test results on this board and the excellent NVIDIA Monitor temperature measurement utility, which is part of the nTune program. The 680i chipset is also one of the better options for Socket 775 CPU overclocking, and it provides great flexibility in our standard cooler tests which overclock to the failure limit with each cooler tested.
NVIDIA Monitor has a drop-down pane for temperature measurement which reports CPU, System, and GPU results. Reviews at this point will concentrate primarily on CPU temperature. In addition to the real-time temperature measurement, NVIDIA Monitor also has a logging feature which can record temperature to a file in standard increments (we selected every 4 seconds). This allows recording of temperatures during testing and play back, for example, of stress test results that can then be examined when the stress tests are completed. There is also the handy reference of speeds and voltages in the top pane to confirm the test setup.
Other components in the cooling test bed are generally the same as those used in our motherboard and memory test bed:
| Cooling Performance Test Configuration | |
| Processor | Intel Core 2 Duo X6800 (x2, 2.93GHz, 4MB Unified Cache) |
| RAM | 2x1GB Corsair Dominator PC2-8888 (DDR2-1111) |
| Hard Drive(s) | Hitachi 250GB SATA2 enabled (16MB Buffer) |
| Video Card: | 1 x EVGA 7900GTX - All Standard Tests |
| Platform Drivers: | NVIDIA 9.53 |
| NVIDIA nTune: | 5.05.22.00 (1/16/2007) |
| Video Drivers: | NVIDIA 93.71 |
| CPU Cooling: | Scythe Ninja Plus Rev. B OCZ Vindicator Thermalright Ultra 120 Extreme Thermalright Ultra 120 Scythe Infinity Zalman CNS9700 Zalman CNS9500 Cooler Master Hyper 6+ Vigor Monsoon II Lite Thermalright MST-9775 Scythe Katana Tuniq Tower 120 Intel Stock HSF for X6800 |
| Power Supply: | OCZ PowerStream 520W |
| Motherboards: | EVGA nForce 680i SLI (NVIDIA 680i) |
| Operating System(s): | Windows XP Professional SP2 |
| BIOS | Award P24 (1/12/2007) |
All cooling tests are run with the components mounted in a standard mid-tower case. The idle and stress temperature tests are run with the case closed and standing as it would in most home setups. We do not use auxiliary fans in the test cooling case, except for the north bridge fan attached to the 680i for overclocking.
Since Scythe provides a small packet of a standard white thermal compound, we tested with a premium silver colored (no silver content) thermal compound we have used in testing coolers that did not include a proprietary thermal compound in the cooler kit.
In our experience the thermal compound used makes little to no difference in cooling test results. This is particularly true now that processors ship with a large manufacturer-installed heatspreader. Our only control on thermal compound is that we use the manufacturer-supplied product if they supply a premium product, or a standard high-quality thermal paste if a premium brand is not supplied.
We first tested the stock Intel cooler at standard X6800 speed, measuring the CPU temperature at idle and while the CPU was being stressed. We stressed the CPU by running continuous loops of the Far Cry River demo. The same tests were repeated at the highest stable overclock we could achieve with the stock cooler. Stable in this case meant the ability to handle our Far Cry looping for at least 30 minutes.
The same tests were then run on the cooler under test at stock, highest stock cooler OC speed (3.73GHz), and the highest OC that could be achieved in the same setup with the cooler being tested. This allows measurement of the cooling efficiency of the test unit compared to stock and the improvement in overclocking capabilities, if any, from using the test cooler.
Noise Levels
In addition to cooling efficiency and overclocking abilities, users shopping for CPU cooling solutions may also be interested in the noise levels of the cooling devices they are considering. Noise levels are measured with the case open on its side and are measured using a C.E.M. DT-8850 Sound Level meter. This meter allows accurate sound level measurements from 35bdB to 130dB with a resolution of 0.1dB and an accuracy of 1.5dB. This is sufficient for our needs in these tests, as measurement starts at the level of a relatively quiet room. Our own test room, with all computers and fans turned off, has a room noise level of 36.4dB.
Our procedures for measuring cooling system noise are described on page seven along with noise results comparing the stock Intel cooler and recently tested CPU coolers to the Scythe Ninja Plus B.
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Lord Evermore - Saturday, April 14, 2007 - link
How is the Ninja and Infinity "not particularly great for overclocking", when even with their stock fans, when they can hit 3.83GHz? 3.9GHz is only 66MHz higher, a whopping 1.7% higher. Individual CPU differences could easily make that up for other users, and the "better" coolers might not get an equal increase in their maximum speed in those cases. At those levels to me things seem for all intents and purposes essentially equal.With the stock fan that's a 31% overclock at 3.83G. 33% at 3.9G. Only in comparison to the very best you've tested do these come out near the lower end of the scale. Right at the end you group it together with the top tier of other coolers. And even if it was at the lower end of the "good" coolers, stock or overclocked, the actual numerical differences are so tiny as to be statistically insignificant.
I suppose 66MHz difference is a HUGE deal to rabid overclockers who are willing to spend money for it, but the majority of even enthusiasts I'd think wouldn't consider it particularly impressive given how large the stock fan overclock is. (Note I'm only addressing the frequency obtained since that seems to be the focus of what makes a cooler "good" here. Temperatures obtained at those speeds could change the lineup.)
Wesley Fink - Monday, April 16, 2007 - link
We use the exact same CPU and test bed for testing all coolers - to remove the "individual CPU" variable. But you are right to put the performance results into perspective. In the grand scheme of performance the difference in 3.83GHz and 3.90GHz is very small as you point out. There are other advantages to the very top performing coolers, however. If you check the cooling at various temps those that do 3.90GHz easily also generally provide the lowest CPU temperaturesa at any given speed.Had we devised our overclocking test a little differently and tested say, every 266 MHz - 2.93GHz, 3.2GHz, 3.466GHz, 3.633GHz, 3.80GHz, 3.966GHz - the true differences might be put in better perspective. However, we started the test with the assumption that if a cooler couldn't outperform the Intel Retail there was no point in buying it. Perhaps if the Intel Retail HSF were poorer we could show more, but the fact is the Intel Retail HSF is really very good and it takes a decent cooler to beat the one that comes at no additional cost with the Intel processor.
Your comments are fair, but we also believe our cooler test methods do identify the very top performers in the marketplace. One notch down is still pretty remarkable performance as you point out.
strikeback03 - Thursday, April 12, 2007 - link
It is kind of hard to tell in the photos, does one set of 3 heat pipes run above the other set, or are they somehow woven together so they are all approximately the same distance from the CPU? Assuming they are mounted with one set above the other, did you do any testing to see whether cooling is better with the fan mounted on one side or the other (i.e. blowing directly on the upper set of heatpipes or the lower set).Wesley Fink - Friday, April 13, 2007 - link
one group of 3 heatpipes passes through an upper plate and the other three pass through the mounting plate below. As you guessed they do cross over the lower set of heatpipes in the center of the base. We did not test with different orientations relative to the heatpipe level, but it is an interesting question.Wesley Fink - Thursday, April 12, 2007 - link
We have received the following statement from Scythe regarding the similarity of their Ninja Plus B Cooler to the OCZ Vindicator:"Scythe is a stock holder of the factory where we produce our coolers,
and also the factory is a stock holder of the Scythe Taiwan office where
we have a very tight relationship almost as close as a group company.
Within this relationship we are acknowledged and aware of all shipments
done from the factory. But OCZ is not one of them.
With the above said, we are definitely sure that OCZ coolers are manufactured
in another factory. The only components that are common between the two are the
hex caps on the heat pipes, which are supplied outside of our cooler factory.
We also have not approved OCZ's design in any form or shape, nor did we receive
any OEM request. Their products are just a simple copy of Ninja and we are
currently being troubled by this untrue rumor. "
Lord Evermore - Saturday, April 14, 2007 - link
My thought is maybe they use a different working fluid. They're just too similar in design for the hardware to have any performance difference, even if OCZ did just copy the design (if they had though, you'd think Scythe would be suing). I suppose the exact alloy composition for the base plate or other parts could be different, if they actually are made somewhere else, and then the parts just end up looking the same and being assembled in the same shape.Then again, Scythe doesn't say NOBODY gets this design but them...
ceefka - Thursday, April 12, 2007 - link
On the packaging of the Ninja it says: "supports fanless model". Now that of course will be dead silent, but it will require adequate airflow in the form of case fans. What are the temperatures and dBs in that situation?Wesley Fink - Thursday, April 12, 2007 - link
Fanless cooling seems to perform best with a PS with a downward facing exhaust fan and excellent case entry and exhaust cooling. Our test case does not really have these features, but we will definitely be paying more attention to airflow and the PS fans in choosing components for our new test bed. With the current configuration in mind, it seemed unfair to test fanless mode temps with a poor configuration for fanless cooling.We did run a quick 5-minute gaming loop at the X6800 stock speed with a fanless Ninja Plus B and it ran fine. Temps were much higher than fan configurations just as you would expect. We will be doing more in testing fanless claims in the future - once the fans are selected from testing and the new test bed is launched.
We do confess concerns over fanless given the current crop of excellent perfroming tower coolers. It appears fanless just moves the fans from the cooler to the case, but fans are still required. There are many large quiet case fans, but there are also many quiet 120mm fans for coolers these days. Fanless seemed to make more difference when ccoolers used buzzy loud 60mm and 70mm fans. These days the best coolers use heatpipes and 120mm fans and the noise levels are MUCH lower with these coolers than the screaming wonders of the past.
fic2 - Thursday, April 12, 2007 - link
I am curious about the Noise Limit heatsinks: http://www.noiselimit.com/index2.asp?id=16">http://www.noiselimit.com/index2.asp?id=16. Any chance this will be included in a review?Stele - Wednesday, April 11, 2007 - link
I'm not sure if this question has been dealt with before - my apologies if it has.I've always wondered how is it that a certain cooler can produce lower CPU temperatures but yet fail to make it at a higher CPU frequency? The Zalman CNPS9700 is a good example - at 3.83GHz the CPU runs at 40°C, which is lower than many of the others, yet does not make it to the last two CPU frequencies. A Scythe Infinity dual, however, registers 44 at the same frequency and yet makes it at least into 3.90GHz. The anomaly is even more pronounced in the stress test. In all cases the coolers seem to scale similarly, so it's not as if one of them had reached its design limit (compared to, for example, the stock Intel HSF). Has an explanation for this been given or proposed before?
I'm guessing that one factor is the mounting method. It's remarkable that some Socket-775 coolers, despite weighing some 1.5-2x that of the official 450g limit with fan, still use the stock plastic push-pin method. Without a backplate. Makes one wonder sometimes whether the cooler is indeed in good contact with the CPU, and whether after some time the cooler would fall out - or the motherboard flex and crack.